Does anyone understand the terminology of these things?
How both sides throw stones and name calling back and forth?
What does it mean? How do we differ?
Is the divide done to incite and split an American public, so both the Dems and the Republicans can use this slight of hand to distract the voters, while both parties work there own agendas? While they spend our money and line their pockets in the scared halls of the government building we pay for. What is their agendas and why are both side so hell bent on not meeting on issues and working out the greater good.
There was a time in the past, that all of the people were Americans first and a party member second.
Have we strayed so far from the foundation of what America is meant to be?
In a little over 200 years we have became the world power, our currency is the stable of the world and we as Americans give more money to other countries then any other country in the world.
We are a great people and have achieved so much in such a short period of time, why do they cut us into parties and not Americans? Control?
The Spartans had a great system of accountability for their governance. They would have an open election and the winner of the popular vote was elected for one year. The great part of their system was at the end of the persons term, they would put them on trial and if they were proven to be incompetent or oppressive, the would sentence them to death. Think about how much pressure the politician would be under to do the right thing, if that was the law of the land!
Now I am not suggesting this sort of system, but I am looking for accountability.
I had the pleasure of a reasonable debate with a lefty, after we rapid-fired a series of numbers and banter, we final got the core believes. This is when we run into issues, they are so far from my own views that we may as well been talking in different languages.
Diversity is one of the strengths of America, as is opposing ideas. But when we are on opposite sides of the world, how do you find common ground?
You would think that the Constitution and the Bill of Rights would be a place to start, but I tried that, to no avail.
Therefore, I would like your input. I do not want to talk about "Taking Points", I want to talk about common ground and what you think America is and were we should be going....
Pretty good, deserves more comment than I have time for right now. You know how Patriotic I am anyway... Be back later.
ReplyDeleteOne reason why the left and right may not be "meeting in the middle" is because you ask for civil debate and then tag your blog with "as the sand blows". Sorry, but I will not waste my time on your blog if you are just going to try to belittle me and my opinions after asking for them. From the exchanges we have had, I can tell you are an intelligent individual. You don't need to stoop to those sort of tactics.
ReplyDeleteSand,
ReplyDeleteI am truly sorry for the tag. I was referring (in the tag) the wording as more of a metaphor, in the sense that you send your information out, not in any derogatory manner. After reviewing your response, I see now the error of my wording.
I will post an apology on my face book page and you can consider this an apology here.
I enjoy reading your input, as the only other reference from your side that I am involved with is with William.
If you know how to change the tag, please email me and I will make the adjustment.
Again, please do not be offended, as that was not my intention.
AG Hammacher
No need for public retractions, if that is not how you truly menat it, then lets move on. I have re-read this blog entry. I'll be back later to comment...
ReplyDeleteYou write:
ReplyDelete"Diversity is one of the strengths of America, as is opposing ideas. But when we are on opposite sides of the world, how do you find common ground?"
To start, conservatives have to truly embrace diversity. Not shun it.
IMO, conservatives don't want to meet the other side in the middle, they want to convert them to their way of thinking.
That is just not realistic.
Most conservatives (not all) say they want America to be great again. However, you have to be white, rich, straight and christian to fit into that mold of "great".
How is that embracing what you yourself state is one of our strengths?
Conservatives want to go back and live in the 1950's again it seems like. Ain't gonna happen. No way, no how!!
Banning abortion will not stop abortion. It will just take it back to the days of dark alleys and coat hangers.
Banning gay marriage will not stop homosexuals from having relationships. It just prevents them from being able to pursue happiness on their terms of happiness.
You can't ban modern medical breakthroughs like stem cell research and then piss and moan that doctors have cured no diseases in the last 20 years.
You can't claim you are for change and then back the same tired, crusty politicans hoping that this time, something will be different. That is how the Obama's of the world get elected.
I think conservatives would be very surprised if they made more of an attempt to reach out and embrace those that share different beliefs on certain issues, that the gap in the middle would be much less than they think it is.
Trying to stop people from living their lives based on beliefs from one religion will not cure the ills of our country.
In fact, it will only make those people feel as if they don't matter and they will be less likely to trust you on other issues.
Saying you want freedom for all and then placing narrow minded, superstitious and outdated parameters on that freedom smacks way too much of hypocrisy...
“I will reach out my hand in friendship, if you will unclench your fist in anger”
ReplyDeleteBarrack Obama
I guess that does not apply to your fellow countrymen.
“IMO, conservatives don't want to meet the other side in the middle, they want to convert them to their way of thinking.”
Is this not what I am attempting here? We (as in you and I) have to agree to disagree on some things, but we don’t have to continue down a well beaten path of our differences.
“I think conservatives would be very surprised if they made more of an attempt to reach out and embrace those that share different beliefs on certain issues, that the gap in the middle would be much less than they think it is.”
This is what we need to work on.
“Trying to stop people from living their lives based on beliefs from one religion will not cure the ills of our country.”
I could care a less about your religion or a lack there of is (ask William, we are very close friends for many years), I have been a conservative since I could vote, and I have yet been asked by any conservative what I believe in. So, maybe we can revisit this.
Conservatives want to go back and live in the 1950's again it seems like. Ain't gonna happen. No way, no how!!
Banning abortion will not stop abortion. It will just take it back to the days of dark alleys and coat hangers.
Banning gay marriage will not stop homosexuals from having relationships. It just prevents them from being able to pursue happiness on their terms of happiness.
You can't ban modern medical breakthroughs like stem cell research and then piss and moan that doctors have cured no diseases in the last 20 years.”
Banter, Banter, Banter. We agree to disagree on some, others don’t even matter…
“Saying you want freedom for all and then placing narrow minded, superstitious and outdated parameters on that freedom smacks way too much of hypocrisy...
Really? Was this necessary, I don’t believe I mentioned any of that???
Quite the contrary. This is the very thing you asked for. Yes, it is necessary. This is how the communication process works.
ReplyDeleteYou asked for the liberal point of view to find common ground. That's what I have tried to give you. None of this was directed to you as an individual, but directed to the ideology you represent.
"Banter, Banter, Banter. We agree to disagree on some, others don’t even matter…"
Hence the breakdown in communication between the factions. Thanks for proving my point. Thats what conservatives don't seem to understand, just because some of these issues are not important to you, does not mean that they are not important to everyone.
You need to understand that the issues I covered are important to liberals and liberals feel like the government is infringing on these things just as seriously as the conservatives feel infringed on over the health care bill.
Like it or not, these are the types of issues that created the divide in Americans and they have to be addressed as well.
This is why all the other issues fall to the way side, because a lot of people can't even agree on this stuff. The core ideologies are a major stumbling block in shortening the rift.
However, this is your blog, not mine. Pick the topic of your choice and we'll discuss it...
I'm glad you guys met. I don't have the patience for either of you. *LMAO* I do crack myself up. BTW A.G. I watched your boy beck for all of 20 min. All he talked about was jesus. Now I know where your comming up with that god shit. Oops, sorry I forgot this is a political blog, lets do keep our gods and country apart...
ReplyDelete“Quite the contrary. This is the very thing you asked for. Yes, it is necessary. This is how the communication process works.”
ReplyDeleteNo, it is not you have aired you side, more then once.
“Saying you want freedom for all and then placing narrow minded, superstitious and outdated parameters on that freedom smacks way too much of hypocrisy...
I believe you are calling me a hypocrite, not necessary and not what I asked for.
“You asked for the liberal point of view to find common ground. That's what I have tried to give you. None of this was directed to you as an individual, but directed to the ideology you represent.”
This is how you find common ground, by debating something you and I can’t possible do anything about?
You have some misgivings about what I believe, please let me clarify:
I am a Conservative Libertarian; I will break it down for you.
As a Libertarian, I believe that the government should be the smallest size possible, with the understanding that some expense is related to that, but we should be monitoring them, not them monitoring us. When we can be track by our cell phones and now are cars (the new little black boxes that contain a tracking devise) 24/7 how do you perceive freedom.
My ideology is very simple, I do not care what you do on your side of the fence, but if you cross over to my side, then we have a problem. I have no feelings for gay rights one way or the other, I have never voted on any bill regarding them. You can have a Roman Orgy, as far as I am concerned, I could careless. I will note here that bills have been passed and then have been repealed, by the majority of the states that have pursued open marriages.
I am a Freemason and believe in God, I don’t care if you do or not. But, telling me I am pushing something on you, because I believe in a God or belittling that view by your comments, does not make any sense.
The Conservative side of this equation is stop spending our money; you are not helping anyone to achieve anything. Balance your budget, like the rest of Americans do.
“Hence the breakdown in communication between the factions. Thanks for proving my point. Thats what conservatives don't seem to understand, just because some of these issues are not important to you, does not mean that they are not important to everyone.”
Then you speak for all Gays, all women that want or don’t want an abortion, and all medical professionals? Because last time I check, they can speak for themselves, as I do.
Just want to get the story straight….
“Conservatives want to go back and live in the 1950's again it seems like. Ain't gonna happen. No way, no how!!’
Have no idea what you mean here…
“You need to understand that the issues I covered are important to liberals and liberals feel like the government is infringing on these things just as seriously as the conservatives feel infringed on over the health care bill.”
The government that is in charge now or a different a set of libs?
The government take-over of health care is not an infringement of rights? Like forcing an American to buy something that they do not want? I see the correlation….(not really)
“Like it or not, these are the types of issues that created the divide in Americans and they have to be addressed as well.”
No they don’t, they are roadblocks created by the libs so you all can sing from the same book. Talk about being brain washed. You have stated the same issues in every one of your post and when question or giving a different view, you attack. How is this helpful?
“This is why all the other issues fall to the way side, because a lot of people can't even agree on this stuff. The core ideologies are a major stumbling block in shortening the rift.”
We don’t have to agree, you have the right to vote! So, vote already…
We can not over come this, what I was asking is wear you thing we could meet, not the same old arguments. Can agree we are Americans and not Socialist? That we are in trouble and that we live in a divided house?
"BTW A.G. I watched your boy beck for all of 20 min. All he talked about was jesus. Now I know where your comming up with that god shit. Oops, sorry I forgot this is a political blog, lets do keep our gods and"
ReplyDeleteWilliam, I will talk to you about this off this blog
"No, it is not you have aired you side, more then once."
ReplyDeleteSo then, both parties in a debate cannot air their side? Then, pray tell...what is YOUR definition of communication??
"I believe you are calling me a hypocrite, not necessary and not what I asked for."
You are taking this way too personal. I have already tried to tell you that I am speaking from a liberal point of view versus a conservative point of view. Not "you" v. "me".
"You have some misgivings about what I believe, please let me clarify:...etc...etc..."
Good for you...myself, I am a centrist with high liberal tendancies and I am an agnostic. Which means I believe there may be a "higher power"...but I am not arrogant enough to presume I know what it is...I do know that higher power isn't found between the pages of organized religious books.
"I believe you are calling me a hypocrite, not necessary and not what I asked for."
No, you just take things way more persoanl than they were intended.
"...but we should be monitoring them, not them monitoring us..."
Yet in previous exchanges, you didn't seem to mind that the Bush adminstration was tapping our phones and reading our emails...oh, riiiight...that was done in the name of "national security"...two words for that...BULL and SHIT!!
"Then you speak for all Gays, all women that want or don’t want an abortion, and all medical professionals? Because last time I check, they can speak for themselves, as I do."
Nope. I was just trying to convey the liberal perspective to you, as I have already stated, but you persist in being closed-minded to it.
"The government take-over of health care is not an infringement of rights? Like forcing an American to buy something that they do not want? I see the correlation….(not really)"
And telling people who they can and can't marry and what they can and can't do with their bodies isn't???? Incredible!!
"No they don’t, they are roadblocks created by the libs so you all can sing from the same book."
That is nothing more than your personal assessment.
"Talk about being brain washed. You have stated the same issues in every one of your post and when question or giving a different view, you attack. How is this helpful?"
Oh, thats rich!! I have been the one on the attack?? I guess I am the one who accused you of having a mental disorder...I am the one who has accused you of being brainwashed...I am the one who accused you of singing from the party songbook...your definition of "attack" is just as faulty as your definition of "communication".
"We can not over come this, what I was asking is wear you thing we could meet, not the same old arguments. Can agree we are Americans and not Socialist? That we are in trouble and that we live in a divided house?"
Yes, we can agree on this...however, its seems that is where you want the debate to stop. Agreeing on the surface with not solve the more deep rooted problems. Its only the start...not the end...
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted to get to the heart of the matter as it pertains to the divide in parties. If you simply want a "yes man" that will agree to all of your view points...you have the wrong guy.
Oohhhh! He only calls me William when he's mad!
ReplyDelete